If you’ve been around SEO for more than five minutes, you’ve heard a hundred opinions about keyword research, link building, and what “really” drives rankings. I wanted a grounded, real-world take from someone who ships results for small and mid-sized businesses—salons, plumbers, taco stands, and everything in between. So I sat down with Tony Herman, an agency founder who’s been doing web since the dial-up days and SEO since the late ’90s.
Early in our chat, Tony pointed readers to a practical resource he maintains: Best Free Backlink Sites—a clean starter list you can actually implement today: links.tonyherman.com
Interview with Tony
Jordan Keller (JK): For readers meeting you for the first time—who are you, and what kinds of SEO problems do you solve most?
Tony Herman (TH): I’ve been doing web design since 1994—my first site went up on AOL. I got into SEO in the late ’90s and never stopped. Most problems I see come through the lens of content that doesn’t match what people actually search for. At my agency we focus on keyword-aligned content and serve SMBs—from salons to plumbers to taco stands. It’s fun helping real local businesses win.
JK: When people say “do keyword research,” what’s the first mistake you see?
TH: Chasing the “top” keyword just because it’s big—or the opposite, picking something nobody searches. We had a client who wanted to rank for “home builder” plus a specific county name; there was no search demand. Biggest mistake: not using data.
JK: Your go-to process for picking keywords that actually turn into revenue?
TH: Use tools. Dig into the data. Sure, being kind of a data geek helps. For me, it’s like solving a puzzle. Figuring it out is fun, but it’s more fun looking at the answer sheet—which is good keyword data. From there, go after medium-to-low KD or long-tails. Those are my favorite.
JK: How do you think about search intent right now?
TH: AI handles a lot of broad, generic queries. That’s pushed me to focus more on buyer intent—people with a credit card in hand. It’s a good shift. Let AI eat the fluff; we’ll serve the folks who are ready to act.
JK: Clusters beat one-offs. What’s your simplest way to build a keyword cluster without over complicating it?
TH: Start with a hub that targets the core “money” intent (e.g., “roof repair in Madison”). Then publish 4–8 supporting posts that answer specific sub-questions (cost, materials, timeline, DIY vs. pro, etc.). Each support post links up to the hub with natural anchors; the hub links back down where it makes sense. One topic per URL—avoid cannibalization. Finish each post with a clear next step (quote form, call, demo). That’s it.
JK: What’s your sniff test for keyword difficulty tools?
TH: Use the one you’ll actually use. If a tool is clunky, you won’t open it. I still validate on the live SERP: who ranks, why they rank, and whether I can build something more useful than what’s on page one.
JK: Internal linking—underrated or overhyped? What’s your rule of thumb?
TH: Underrated. I like plugins that suggest or auto-insert sensible links so I can keep writing. Use internal links to pass relevance and authority from supporting posts to the hub. Most sites don’t do it well—or at all.
JK: Let’s talk link building. What types of links are worth chasing in 2025?
TH: Real editorial mentions and resource page links still move the needle. Press releases can be useful when there’s real news. Partner pages and supplier/distributor links get overlooked. And citations—done consistently—still matter for local. SEO is detail work; it helps to be the kind of person who enjoys that.
JK: Anchor text—how do you stay safe long-term?
TH: Go boring off-site: brand name, domain, generic anchors. On-site is where you shape relevance with more descriptive anchors. Don’t tie one page to only one keyword; use a diverse set of closely related phrases to help search engines understand context.
JK: A lot of people consider bulk link packs. Is there a safe way to use them?
TH: If you’re going to test them, treat them as tier-2 links. Point them at buffer assets you control—YouTube videos, Medium posts, LinkedIn company page, or solid supporting blog posts that link to your hub. Don’t point bulk packs at your homepage or core money pages. Spread the links across 10–20 targets, keep anchors mostly branded/URL, and measure in Google Search Console. If nothing moves, stop.
JK: Define “buffer” URLs for readers. Why do they matter?
TH: Buffers are strong, defensible URLs that can earn links safely: your YouTube videos, a Medium article, LinkedIn company page, or a helpful supporting post on your site. They absorb risk and pass value inward via internal links. If Google ignores a chunk of low-quality links, it hits the buffers—not your revenue pages.
JK: How do you QA a vendor’s link deliverable before scaling?
TH: Ask for 25–50 samples. Check:
- Are the pages indexed?
- Are links actually dofollow when promised?
- Is the content readable and topically relevant (not spun)?
- Do anchors follow your distribution?
- Is there domain diversity, not 200 links on three sites?
If it fails the sniff test, don’t scale it.
JK: Post-campaign, which metrics do you watch?
TH: Data, data, data. Don’t live only in analytics, use GSC (Google Search Console) to guide direction: queries, impressions, average position, by URL. I check it daily. I also look at dwell time and traffic source quality to see if we’re attracting the right audience.
JK: Quick example where better intent or internal links beat “more backlinks.”
TH: We had a local services client stuck on page two for a hub page. Instead of chasing links, we mapped search intent gaps and published five support posts (pricing, timeframe, permit rules, seasonal timing, DIY risks). We added clean internal links and refreshed the hub’s intro to answer the top query first. That moved them to page one—no new external links.
JK: What common SEO advice do you think is outdated?
TH: “Publish more” as a strategy. Yes, volume helps, but only 2–3 out of 20 posts typically take off. Put the answer at the top, make it genuinely helpful, and quit hiding content behind fancy UI.
JK: Small team, 90 days, limited bandwidth. What three things should they do?
TH: (1) Fix basics—indexation, speed, crawl blocks, thin/duplicate pages. (2) Ship one high-intent cluster (hub + 4–6 support posts). (3) Build 15–25 legit links—citations, partner pages, a couple of real editorials, and tighten internal linking.
JK: How do you future-proof against constant Google updates?
TH: Build moats: topical authority via clusters, brand signals (people actually search for you), quality links, and pages that satisfy intent quickly. Also diversify traffic—email, direct, referrals—so you’re not living and dying by one algorithm.
JK: One contrarian belief that’s served you well.
TH: Boring consistency beats hacks. Do the basics right—match intent, ship clusters, earn real links—and keep going while the scoreboard is quiet. Results show up.
JK: Someone’s stuck on page two. First move?
TH: Pull up page-one winners and compare: intent match, content gaps, freshness, and internal links into that page. Then add a few credible, relevant links to the hub (not the homepage). Small hinges swing big doors.
Closing Thoughts
There’s a lot of noise in SEO, but Tony’s approach is refreshingly simple: data over guesses, clusters over one-offs, and links that make sense in the real world. If you want a practical place to start building authority, grab his free list here: links.tonyherman.com
Editor’s note: This interview has been lightly edited for clarity and length.
